S3 E12 - Radical Honesty about Weight loss, Nutrition, and GLP-1’s with Registered Dietitian Summer Kessel

In this conversation, Sophia Hyde interviews Summer Kessel, a registered dietitian and author, about her personal journey with weight loss, the impact of GLP-1 medications, and the complexities surrounding obesity and nutrition. They discuss the importance of habit-based goals, the influence of societal norms, and the challenges of food noise. Summer shares her insights on the ethics of dietetics and the accessibility of weight loss medications, emphasizing the need for a personalized approach to health and nutrition.

Click here for all the ways to connect with Summer. 

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Have a topic you would love to hear Sophia address on the podcast? Send your ideas to hello@sophiahyde.com

Transcript

Sophia Hyde (00:01.331)
right, welcome back everybody. Today we have a special guest that I'm gonna introduce to you guys. She is both an author and registered dietician, Summer Kessel, but I'm gonna give you guys two introductions. So one is gonna be the professional one and then I'm gonna give you my personal off the books intro. So Summer is a registered dietician, licensed dietician, nutritionalist, and a board certified specialist in obesity and weight management.

Busy mom of two, she is a champion for realistic, individualized, and sustainable nutrition, whatever that means to you. In addition to her professional skills, Summer's also a person living with obesity who has lost and maintained more than 140 pounds, not without its challenges, over the past 20 years. GLP-1 medications changed her life, and now she works to advocate for and educate others on weight loss and nutrition.

Her book, Living Your Healthiest Semi-Gluten Life, A Complete Guide to Nutrition and Mindset While on a GLP-1 Medication, is available wherever books are sold. So there's the fancy one. Now here's my intro of summer.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (01:09.134)
Every time somebody reads that on a on a podcast or somewhere. I'm just like, God, it's so long. So thank you for reading that whole thing. like, the crafted bio

Sophia Hyde (01:18.041)
Okay, but you know, I consider trimming it. I can I consider trimming it, but actually it has all of the bullet points. There was like one sentence I was like, I could skip this sentence. And I was like, but then like, why? That's like too much work when I could just read the thing. So those are all the bullet points. So but here's my introduction, which I think will probably be quite different than any other podcast that has you on.

Summer and I have known each other since we were 14, because we went to the same high school. And because we are the class of 2005, Facebook had just literally the summer we graduated, it opened up to all colleges, but you had to have a university email address. So what happened was our whole class got on Facebook and...

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (01:50.574)
Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (02:08.796)
Summer and I are both late in life diagnosed ADH folks. And so we were both completely oversharing every detail about our lives on social media for the last 20 years. And so we have had, I feel like despite the fact that I think I've only seen you in person maybe twice in the last 20 years.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (02:30.142)
Only been twice? Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (02:32.158)
that I can recall, but I feel like I've had a front row seat to everything that's happened in your life. so all of this, right, right, right. And so all of the stories, so in her book, which we're gonna talk about, and I read, she shares a lot of her weight loss struggles and her relationship with weight and her journey of what led her to becoming a dietician and then becoming, starting on GLPs a couple of years ago and all that.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (02:40.448)
And me to yours.

Sophia Hyde (03:01.236)
is in there. But what's been the most interesting and one of the reasons I wanted to invite Summer on, because if you guys are listening, you're like, this is a random episode, Sophia. Why are you talking about GLP-1s? This isn't something you've ever covered, right? This doesn't, it may not sound like all the other episodes I have on, but the reason I specifically invited Summer is because everything that we talk about is about becoming your favorite self, which in a lot of times, 80 % of the work is

getting rid of all of the shoulds of how society says you should do things, what you're supposed to do, who you're supposed to be, how you're supposed to move through the world, and ending all of the people pleasing because so much of the way that we, many of us, move through the world is because we are trying to please somebody somewhere, whether it is our partners, religion, society, social norms, like culture, whatever it is, wherever we're trying to fit in, we are people pleasing in so many ways.

but Summer is a very classic Enneagram eight, which means that if you guys don't, you know, I talk about the Enneagram a lot on here, but that's the challenger, that's the social justice warrior, and they run towards conflict, not away from it. And so Summer has no problem calling out systems that are broken, fighting for what she thinks is right, putting her two cents out there and trying to make this world a better place for other people to live in as well.

And so I really wanted to have her on to talk a lot about the journey she's been through and everything she's had to unlearn, relearn. And I think you guys are really gonna appreciate it. So that was a mouthful of my intro. Summer, is there anything else you wanted to share before we start talking about your story in the book and everything like that?

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (04:48.502)
No, I'm just so thrilled that we're here. And I'm like mad at myself that we've only hung out like a couple of times, because we were not that far apart from each other when I was, when you were living here in Florida. I mean, we went to the same high school, right? And it's funny because we've lived very parallel journeys, I think. And I've enjoyed following you and you followed me and it's been very parallel. Like our kids are kind of the same age.

Sophia Hyde (05:04.143)
Very parallel lives. Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (05:12.052)
You know, we have two daughters that I think are a year apart and two sons a year apart. Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (05:15.296)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I remember, I think I came over to your house when you first had your daughter and we were talking about like breastfeeding. Because I heard you met up at a park.

Sophia Hyde (05:24.66)
I don't remember you at my house. Let's say that you could have, I'm not gonna put it past you. My 2014 memories are very low. that newborn fog is there. But I do remember that all of your posting about breastfeeding led me to the Leleche Facebook group. And I went to one of the meetings and you were there. So you were breastfeeding your daughter who was a little older than mine. And I was like, nobody in my life had breastfed. And so I had no mentorship, no help, no guidance. I just wanted to.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (05:43.298)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (05:46.818)
Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (05:54.555)
and you ended up becoming this like resource for me and that the Leche Facebook group that you put me in ended up being like a lifeline for me.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (06:03.064)
Yeah. So it's funny because we've had this like really parallel story. And I think and it's I always I remember in high school thinking, my God, we are such opposites. Right?

Sophia Hyde (06:14.548)
I was prepping for this episode and thinking should I say on there that I'm not really sure summer liked me in high school

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (06:21.804)
No, well, here's, so let's just, I mean, we're wide open books, right? And like, we are so similar in our, I think our core.

Sophia Hyde (06:25.299)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (06:31.488)
like values and like personality traits and like how we move through the world and like you're always kind of like redefining and re-exploring and like you just up and moved and I'm just like that's so freaking cool and like you know I've been redefining and re-exploring and like trying to find my thing and like we've moved through the world very similarly but like I remember in high school you were so religious

But so like steadfast and like, like, I don't know, you had a, you could sell it. Like you believed it, you know what I mean? And like you were very like true to yourself in like sharing what you thought. And so was I, but I grew up with like no religion whatsoever. So it was like, she's so different from me. She's this religious girl and I'm not and like she got married young and I didn't and like.

You know, we, felt like we were so different, but now in retrospect, it's like, no, we have a lot of the same like personality traits. I think the late stage, like ADHD diagnosis makes a lot of sense for both of us. And I'll be honest with you, when I was writing my book, I remember thinking, you know, when Sophia wrote her book, I...

Sophia Hyde (07:34.536)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (07:44.43)
remember that she booked a hotel room for herself so that she could go and be alone for three days to finish her book. And I was like, if I'm getting close on this deadline, I'm going to do that. I'm totally going to do that because I really struggled to write my book with the kids and my husband and work and responsibilities and being in my office where everybody always knows I am. I really struggled to meet my deadlines for my book and had a hard time.

Sophia Hyde (08:00.434)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (08:10.356)
I went away, I think four times. It might've been five, but honestly, it wasn't even the time of like, oh, I'm not doing my work work. I'm like, no, no, no. It was literally, could, if I was home and was gonna, in theory on a calendar, I could be like, oh, I'll do bedtime and then write for a couple of hours, because I'm usually not asleep till 10, 30, 11, theoretically. But what happens is your energy is so wiped that I don't have any cognitive abilities.

But if I'm in a hotel, I was writing some of my best content in the middle of the night. Like I could write till one or two, whenever my brain finally decided it was done, I'd crash and sleep until nine. What happened, what I found about the hotel was that I could finish my work day around two, three o'clock, go check in in a hotel, and children wipe you out so much. It's amazing how much more time you have when you don't have to cook a dinner, sit at a table, clean it up.

Do the bed time, it like wipes so much of your energy. So the time I got back by leaving, even if it was just for a night sometimes, was just getting to skip the evening routine.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (09:17.838)
Yeah, so I would I would skip the evening routine to go to a coffee shop But I remember saying like if I really need the extra time, I'm totally Going to steal that from you. So anyways, I feel like now it's funny because I very much enjoy following you and I've learned so much from you and the things that you post and I'm like god, we really should have been friends in high school But I was just so hung up on the religion thing that I was just like nah

Sophia Hyde (09:21.14)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (09:40.782)
I didn't dislike you. was just like, she's not my people because I'm so not like I'm almost anti-religion to a point. And it's like at that phase in your life, you were all in and there was no like you hadn't found the gray area yet. And so I now it's funny because now I so appreciate your perspective on religion and how you practice and how you have shared that out. I think I've really appreciated you sharing that. I think I've taken a lot away from that as well.

Sophia Hyde (09:40.902)
Yeah

Sophia Hyde (10:10.59)
Well, thank you. remember circa like 2011, writing some, so my deconstruction, again, because we're both very public people, you were flooding the internet with food and workout and weight loss and your determination and my God, you've been so, okay, to make this about what the subject actually is, but this is all gonna circle back, is. I watched you, I watched you, I remember, go off to UT.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (10:10.736)
Yep.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (10:37.102)
Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (10:38.27)
Cause I remember we all knew where everybody was going as soon as you graduated. And then suddenly on Facebook, was like, Summer is not a UT. She is somewhere in South Florida and she's gained a lot of weight. I mean, it's Facebook. You see it, you know, I'm just like, wow, Summer, okay. And I think, cause you're like on the basketball team, like I think you like played for like the UT basketball team or something. And I remember watching that, but then you started like posting about the weight loss journey and what you were doing and you were working so fucking hard.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (10:51.869)
Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (11:08.072)
And I always had, because discipline and consistency on the strength hinders test are in my bottom five. Like my ability to show up at the same time every day and do something is literally one of the hardest things for me to do. And you would just be so solid, whether it was the season when you did crossfit or the season when you did this or this. You had like your phases, you had your weight watchers era, you had your, I can remember like all the different little eras of the journey.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (11:19.416)
Hmm?

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (11:33.421)
Yeah?

Sophia Hyde (11:34.737)
And you were so, so you are like publicly broadcasting all this weight loss. I remember you losing a ton of weight. I remember when you gained it back after your first child and then you like publicly showed how you were losing all of that and you were in RD school when that was happening. And so I know there's some shoulds and supposed tos up in that story of like struggling with obesity while you're in RD school.

So I know that there's plenty of people who talk about that. So while you were publicly vomiting all of your struggles with weight loss and that I was publicly vomiting all of my things I was processing with religion. And so it's like, I did not, there was not a term for it when I was going through it, but post pandemic, like in the COVID area, TikTok started calling what I went through deconstruction.

and that's when you like unlearn, you deconstruct everything you were handed in religion. And then reconstruction is when you rebuild something new for yourself. And I went through all of that before TikTok and social media were talking about it. And it was lonely and that's a whole other thing. It's not what today's podcast is about, but anyways, I was like commenting and posting it. I remember writing a blog circa 2011.

where I was like, if this is what Christianity is, I don't think I can call myself a Christian anymore. And I wrote this blog post about it. And I, to this day, still remember, not a lot of people wanna take on controversial subjects, right? So those kind of posts don't get very much comments and feedback and whatever. And I remember that you commented and said, wow, this means so much to me. Reading this, I just gained so much respect for you that you're willing to openly question your beliefs. And I was like,

What? That, that what? remember, but I remember in 2011, like nobody else was telling me that because you do remember my whole community, all my relationships, all my network was mostly built through people I met through the church community. So everybody else, these thoughts were scaring them and it was pushing them away from me. Yeah, everybody else, was pushing them away from. And then there was this summer girl who I was pretty sure like did not enjoy my company in high school who saw it like a magnet and be like,

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (13:35.028)
Mm, challenging them, challenging them.

Sophia Hyde (13:47.496)
kind of drawn towards this. was like, yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (13:49.644)
Like I love this like yes girl like challenge it because that's I mean that's I've always been like that like I just you know you have to challenge I feel like you have to challenge what the world shows you because then how else are you supposed to know what it means for you like you can't I just can't accept hardly anything at face value like there's got to be more there's got to be a story there's got to be a reason there's got to be some hidden agenda somewhere and I'm not a conspiracy

theorist in that way, but like, I just don't ever take anything at face value. And it's like, I want to trust I trust people and I believe your story and like, your story is what it is where you're at right now. But like, I've always that's always been my thing with like religion. I've just always been super skeptical and like, just very like, nah, can't all be great. Like there's stuff going on behind the scenes there that you know, nobody talks about or whatever. And like, I

I just, remember that post. I remember when you did that blog. And I remember being like, hey, that's cool. Like I love a change, you know? And sorry for the new cat is on my shoulder, but yeah. And I remember too, this must've been sometime later. And I think it was when you were working on your book. You had one, I remember if it was a blog post or just a post where you challenged the shoulds.

that you made a post about like, are you doing something because somebody said you should do it or are you doing things because it's true to your core values? And I think at the time I was in dietitian school and it's really funny because there's a lot of parallels I think in our work, like the coaching that you do with people and the coaching I do with nutrition, that there's something called value-based coaching, right, where you really wanna help somebody get to like,

their why and their core values because if we can tap into those core values, then whatever habit we're working on is way more likely to stick. So you think like in nutrition coaching, I'm just like, okay, you need to eat more vegetables. All right, I'll eat more vegetables. That's not gonna stick just cause I told you to. But if we tie like you have a family history of colon cancer and you watched your grandfather go through this really terrible cancer diagnosis and your ultimate goal is to live

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (16:09.562)
long, healthy, happy life and prevent that cancer diagnosis in the future if possible? What are some habits that we can implement that would help you achieve that value-based goal like long-term health?

that's okay, could you eat some vegetables to help support that goal? And then all of a sudden you're like, hell yeah, I could eat some vegetables. That sounds so like that makes sense. And it breaks down those barriers. And so I love to help people challenge their values because sometimes I try to get there and like, what are your core values? Like what really matters to you? And sometimes in a nutrition session, people will be like, what the hell are you talking about?

Like I don't even know that language or that terminology. then so getting them to a point of like, is being successful really important to you? Is your family really important to you? Like what makes you who you are? And it's shocking the number of people who have like no clue.

Sophia Hyde (17:02.772)
No, I do a lot of values work with people because we have to begin with why are you doing what you're doing? And just to bring this back to weight loss, when I had never, I resonated a lot with your story and we need to talk for the purpose of the listeners. We do need to definitely talk a lot about food noise because I think that's one of the most important things when it comes to my own experiences and what a lot of people have. I have family and friends who I've never done a GLP one.

but I have a lot of friends and family who have. reading your story and knowing the experiences of some of my clients and friends, the food noise to me is really one of the greatest benefits of the medication. And so do want you to be able to elaborate on that for people who don't understand what that means. But there's, I didn't, that word wasn't around before, right? But I definitely have had food noise in my brain since...

probably the earliest I can remember is probably circa third grade or something. And I can totally relate to those stories of being in, you know, all the different events I've gone to. I can still remember so many of the buffet tables or the snack tables or feeling like a gravitational pull. Like if I'm in another room, I'm still aware of the big spread of free food sitting over there and like actively fighting the magnet to not pull me over to it and like no ability to stop when full, right? Like I spent so much of my life with that. But the first time

that I was meeting with a mentor. I started working with a mentor in 2011 and she asked me to put my goals down and so I did this goal spreadsheet thing that she had and one of my goals was to have a flat stomach and she was like, this is really interesting. Say more. The goal is a flat stomach? And I was like, well, I've just never had one before and I want that. And she's like, but why? And I was like, well, just because.

I haven't and I want to like it's like a bucket list. It was like a bucket listing and I and so ultimately if you were really to break that down like why did I want a flat stomach because I am a child. I am a product of the 2000 eras and was told by Bernie Spears and Christina Aguilera and every other Victoria's Secret model that that was the beauty standard and I'd never achieved it, known what it was like. And so my why was completely a result of societal standards.

Sophia Hyde (19:28.336)
and that didn't come with anything to do with me and what I actually wanted for myself. And so that's an example of a goal that doesn't even freaking belong there, right? And so I remember reaching out to you probably five years ago. I had like five years in a row where I was like, this year, my New Year's resolution, this is the year I'm gonna finally hit 150 pounds. I hit it like two times for a day in adulthood and...

I was like, okay, fifth year in a row, I can't keep doing this to myself. I can't keep putting 150 and then not hitting it. I remember reaching out to, I just sent you a DM and I was like, I can't make a health goal around weight again. I can't do it. It's been like five years in a row, same number. I need a different health goal. Can you recommend any other way to measure? Because I'd asked two people who were skinny, hey, what kind of health goal? And they both sent me to the BMI and I was already like not a BMI fan at that point. And so you were like,

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (20:18.264)
Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (20:25.988)
your goals should be a habit goal. Yeah, you were like, you need a habit goal. And I was like, yes. And then that worked. And I don't need to hit 150. That's not a thing on my radar anymore. I actually threw the scale away that year. It's been years since I knew how much I weighed. yeah, anyways, rabbit trail. But

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (20:28.514)
habit-based goal. Yeah, habit-based health goal.

Sophia Hyde (20:47.56)
the values, yeah. So it's like why, if this is the goal you have, why do you even have it? And so having a flat stomach is not something I pursue anymore, right? Because that's something that some magazine told me I should want. But what do I actually want for myself? I wanna be, this is the thing I always tell people, I wanna teach yoga classes in my 80s. So all the decisions I make,

are is this sustainable? I prevent an injury while I still have high energy? It is like what has to be true for me to teach yoga classes in my 80s? That is my lens for how I make health choices.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (21:18.018)
Yeah, that's Mine is I wanna be, because I know you've left us here in Florida, but I wanna be the very old tan lady with my tattoos in a bikini, walking the beach every morning. I wanna be that regular blue-thropper.

Sophia Hyde (21:34.937)
I know that woman. I've seen that woman. Yes.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (21:38.158)
Right and you know with all my tattoos and the tan and the wrinkles and like I want to be in a bikini top and my tennis shoes as an old lady with my white hair walk in the beach that's my goal and so whatever that takes to do that right and as we get older I think it gets easier to be like okay What kind of old person do I want to be what kind of life do I want to live when I get older? But I was in my early seasons of dieting and exercising It was very like appearance based it was

You know, I have to be a healthy weight and a healthy size because I'm a dietician. Like, that's what I'm supposed to be, you know? And like, how hard is it? It was so hard to...

try to strive for something and like it's tied so much to like my career and my identity and I've had to really work on that and like make sure I had safe kind of boundaries and understanding there that like you know would I enjoy this lifestyle that I'm living even if I wasn't a dietitian.

would I still go to the gym and eat this way even if I wasn't posting about it online every day? Because there were definitely times in my life where like the reason why I ate this healthy meal is so I could take a picture of it and share it.

Right? That was the motivation was just the accountability to my audience at that point. It was like they've seen me struggle. They've seen me lose the weight. They've seen me gain the weight because I was very open about that. And it was really hard, honestly, to post like pictures of me when I was away at college and had gained all that weight from being like the basketball player everybody knew in high school. And then I went away to college and gained weight very quickly. I really struggled. And but I also I think the oversharing and being the child of the

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (23:26.224)
MySpace era and the Facebook and all of that. That's also where I found my people. And that's also where I found support and I found community.

was online and so I felt a little accountability there to like resurface every once in a while and be like, hey, I've gained all this weight, here I am, but this is what I'm gonna do about it, I'm going to the gym, I'm eating this way and I really struggled. I mean, I posted about it, but if I went off grid for two weeks, it was very likely that I wasn't going to the gym and I wasn't eating healthy and...

It's taken me a long time to get really consistent in my habits and my eating and the GLP one has played a huge part in that because I you say like determination and and discipline I mean I could anybody can do that for six weeks My issue is in the past I would post about orange theory for six weeks and it would look like I was crushing it and Then I would crash and burn out for a whole week, and I just wouldn't post anything but

you wouldn't see that part. You would just think, there she is again. She's working out every day. And I definitely had a tendency of going all or nothing, all in or not at all. And that is leveled out and much more stable and consistent now. I miss the gym, overslept this morning. If I miss the gym, it's no big deal. Old me missed the gym.

be like devastated, I would be like so hard on myself about it. So there's been a lot of growth and learning there. And I think part of it is being like knowing that I have this tool with the GLP-1 medication now.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (25:01.246)
And I've been on it for the past three years. I intend to be on some sort of medication like this for the rest of my life because obesity is for me, especially it's like a chronic relapsing recurrent disease. I feel the same way like about my ADHD medication. Like I cannot imagine not having this medication ever like in the future. Like I'm it helps me just live my life, right? That's how I feel about the GLP-1 medication. So I intend to be on some sort of treatment like that forever if I can.

But it just has helped me come to a place where I don't have to be all or nothing anymore to still maintain my weight loss, to still feel healthy, to still engage in these healthy habits. And it's way less about appearance or size or number or any of that stuff anymore like it used to be. It's been a fun journey. And it's funny that you read some of the stories in the book knowing at college, yeah, I remember that, or after my daughter. I remember that, like when I was vegan.

Sophia Hyde (25:58.045)
knew those summers. I had seen that version of summer. I had, it feels like I had a front row seat, even if it might've been through pictures. I watched the, I watched the climate. even, one of the parts of the book I remember it was specifically was like you were talking about different, you know, I remember the phase when you were eating.

a lot of eggs and avocados and then a year later talking about why we don't need to eat eggs and avocados for breakfast, right? It was like, I was like, I remember when every day the pictures had eggs and avocados and then a year or two later, it was like, yeah, that's not the best way.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (26:32.77)
Yeah, all those fats probably weren't, you know, actually we should probably have more carbohydrates. Yeah, no, it's like I've, and I've had to live it. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I've had to, I'm the type of person that if I don't live it and experience it myself.

I don't feel comfortable sharing my opinion with other people about what they are doing or what they should should do. I know that that's a tricky word, but like people come to me for advice and I am very aware that like there is what the textbooks say about nutrition, right? And then there are the strategies with which to coach somebody to help them implement these strategies.

Sophia Hyde (26:56.244)
I feel the same way.

Sophia Hyde (27:02.356)
Okay.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (27:19.322)
But then there's like the real world. And then there's like individual, like people have what works for them and what doesn't. And I would just feel uncomfortable relating, I wouldn't be able to relate to the people that I work with if I hadn't also had this story.

Sophia Hyde (27:35.955)
Yeah, but I think that that's what, I think that that's the exact reason that you've found the success that you have. I think the reason that your platform has grown to the size that it has and the reason you have this book deal and people can find you in Barnes and Noble now, I think the reason that all that happened is because you are teaching and educating from a place of experience and people can relate to that and connect to it. When you have somebody who has been skinny their whole life teach you,

how to lose weight or how to manage going to, they can't even explain to you why it's hard to stop eating when you're full. They can't even understand that you don't even know what it feels like to hit that. That was one of the things that I had to work a lot on learning was because I grew up in a family with parents from Southern Louisiana who were amazing cooks and our culture, our family culture was every night there was amazing food.

and every single night you went, my God, that was so good. And you unbuttoned your pants and you're like, I'm so stuffed. Like everybody went back for seconds. That's just the way that it was. And I had never, the only people I ever saw who like stop, I remember you, we have a mutual friend from high school, Christina, and her whole family's skinny. And at her house, her mom had been a model before having kids. And they, their family culture was you couldn't finish your plate.

Their family culture was you had to always leave a bite so that you had at least one bite left on your plate so that it somehow taught you to not over-stuff yourself or something. I don't know, whatever, but nobody finished their plate there. You needed to leave at least one bite of something. So when Christine and I, who's one of my closest friends and we've...

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (29:23.854)
Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (29:27.558)
traveled together and we went to every homecoming together. We've been to restaurants together. I finished Christina's plates. That's what happened. I would eat my food and then would always know. I'd like, are you done now? And so I would just have the rest of her dessert or the rest of her meal because she wasn't going to finish that. But anyways, point being those things. How could somebody like that ever teach you what it's like if they don't even know what it's like to not know when to stop?

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (29:53.88)
Well, and I grew up in a Cuban household, right? Where it was like, don't finish your food. Was something wrong with it? Did it not taste good? Do you not feel well? Are you OK? And then at the same time, the follow-up conversation was like, you're getting a little heavy. You just pressured me into finishing my food. It was such a tug and pull. no, want to, you know, there are amazing dieticians who have never struggled with their weight, who are very capable. But I think that those dieticians, the reason that they

are excellent is because they are able to empathize and then they implement like really good coaching skills, right? To provide tools and resources to help the person discover these things about them. So I don't wanna say that like you're not gonna get great care from a skinny dietician, but I think that it is a problem in our profession and I talk about this a lot on my platform and I, know, on my podcast like.

There is a problem in the world of dietetics and nutrition and health. you know, we're seeing it right now with the the Maha movement and all of these like wellness influencers and folks who

share their nutrition perspective or their health perspective from their place of privilege and from their lived experience with which they had unlimited access to healthy food and they had no problems with their health and they don't have, you know, they didn't have disabilities or illnesses or any of these things and they're speaking from a place of privilege without acknowledging that privilege.

And so I think that, you know, you can get a dietitian who's great at supporting you if they acknowledge like, hey, I'm not you. You, your body is your body. Only you know how you feel. I don't know how you feel. I've never lived this life that you're living, but I'm here to support you through it and coach you through it. I think can still be a beautiful like dietitian patient relationship. But so many folks in the health, wellness space just really do a bad job of acknowledging like we're all living real world.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (31:57.712)
and the world right now is like sucks and it's crazy and busy and stressful and money is tight and kids are crazy and life is demanding and then trying to implement any sort of habit or nutrition change or change your weight in the midst of living in the real world is really tough.

Sophia Hyde (32:20.116)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (32:20.744)
And I get in fights all the time on the internet with people who like, just try harder, or just work out more, or just eat healthier. I'm like, I have been posting about my working out and eating healthier for 15 years at this point, and still ended up right back where I started, because I was so freaking hungry all the time. I couldn't stick to it long term until I started these medicines.

Sophia Hyde (32:41.896)
Yeah. One of the things that one of the things I appreciated about your book, I expected. So the only reason I read your book was because you were coming on my podcast. And like, I didn't feel like I could interview somebody if I hadn't read the book. That just didn't, that doesn't drive with me. So I was like, well, I have to read this. But personally, I probably wouldn't have because I don't have, I haven't seen a need that a GLP one would be right for me. And I think I talked to you this about, I think I probably would have.

five years ago, but getting treatment for ADHD and realizing how much the need that I was feeling, so much of the food noise that I had was, it was almost always sugar and caffeine that I was craving, was completely related to chasing the dopamine and needing the stimulants in my brain. so getting, when I got my ADHD under control, I also,

solved all of my food problems. I stop when I'm full. It's amazing. I just, the very first day that I was on my ADHD meds, I stopped dinner halfway through because I was full. I left a whole serving of pasta and I was like, this doesn't even make sense to me. Like I'd never known that version of Sophia who could just stop because she wasn't hungry anymore. So I think the conversation probably would have looked different if I wasn't actively getting help for my ADHD. I think that it would look different. But anyways, drive a trail.

I read the book to prepare for today's interview. And one of the things that I really liked about it was I expected the book, because it literally says like living your best, you know, semi-gluten life, I expected to read a book about how to diet and exercise, like what you could, should or shouldn't eat and what kind of workouts you could or couldn't do, like, because you're taking this medication, right?

And that doesn't start till the second half of the book. Like before you even mention GLP-1s and what a lifestyle with them looks like, starting them, maintaining them, coming off of them, like that whole, that's what the whole book would be about. And you don't even start that till 50 % in because you've set the stage with addressing all of the misunderstandings that people have around what it even means to be obese. Like that's a whole loaded thing. I appreciated a lot of that.

Sophia Hyde (34:59.432)
what it even means, like how many, the actual like disease of obesity, how that affects us, all of the components. There was a chart, there was a really great visual that you had. And because my app lets me highlight, I should have screen-shotted it, but you're gonna know what graphic I'm talking about. You have a graphic, and it was like, I think, was it all the different reasons somebody might be obese? And I remember, I counted them. I think it was like maybe 18 little things that you had.

Two of them were related to food and one was related to movement. And so it was like three of the 18 reasons somebody might be obese have to do with diet and exercise, but 15 out of the 18 don't. I loved that visual. And so you spent the whole first half just educating people on what they don't really understand about this world.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (35:51.254)
about the disease of obesity and that, you know, we have agency and we have some autonomy and we have some, we should take some ownership over our behaviors and our exercise and our nutrition and our environments. Yes, this is true.

But knowing that we can't control everything, I think helps put into perspective when people feel like they're doing all the things that they should be doing and still struggling with their weight. I think as a society, we're so bad at like blaming the individual, like they must be doing something wrong when truly there are so many other systematic, wide causes that contribute to somebody's weight and even to somebody's behaviors and

choices, right? Like we think we have full control over our behaviors and choices when so much of that is learned. So much of that is driven by our environment, by our biology, by our, you know, what we react to or don't react to, what gives us joy, what doesn't give us joy. Like those are things that are developed from infancy, right? Like you were even talking about like family habits and culture. Like that's a huge part of somebody's weight regardless

Regardless of their personal intentions in their brain, if this is their norm, this is what they're going to default to, especially when life gets hard, right? When we get stressed or things get busy. It's hard to make good choices when you're working two jobs and your kids are crazy and you're trying to figure out what's for dinner. Sometimes it is just gonna be fast food, right? And that's not your fault that that is the situation that you're in. And I think far too often people blame themselves for their weight and nutrition and

exercise struggles. And I'm not, you know, I get a little hesitant when a lot of people are like, obesity is not your fault. I think that that is partly true. Like there are other influencers, but I don't ever want anyone to just say, throw their hands up and say that then they don't have agency or autonomy over their choices.

Sophia Hyde (37:52.531)
Right, right, right. It's probably similar to like nature versus nurture. It's both. Our environments create who we are and also our DNA creates who we are. And so it's both. It's not either or. And so in the same case, like there are parts that are completely you and the choices you've made and the choices you can now change making. And also there's some freedom. And I see this in my clients. I'm not always addressing

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (38:14.85)
Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (38:21.934)
weight issues, that's like, I have my whole pie, my wheel. And so one of those is body, is the body spoke. And even within that, there's a lot of stuff about the body that's not even necessarily diet or exercise related or weight related. so it's something that comes up with my clients, but I'm usually dealing with much larger things. And I cannot tell you how often somebody is coming to me with something for coaching.

that they are being so hard on themselves for and wanting to be better. And I say, okay, I'm gonna give you the tools and we're gonna help you climb out of the situation that you're in. But before I talk to you about any of that, I need you to understand it's not your fault that you're here. I need you to understand that the reason you're in this problem is most of the time with the women I'm dealing with, I have to go into the patriarchy. It's like we live in a patriarchal society and it...

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (39:13.742)
you

Sophia Hyde (39:16.55)
trained you to be this way and it trained everyone around you to treat you this way. And you are a, you truly are a victim of these large circumstances. Now that doesn't mean that you just stop because we're not going to accept that. You can have a better life. You just have to understand what you're actually fighting, which is you're not just fighting, the choices I made got me here. It's like, no, you have to fight against a very large system to climb out of this.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (39:18.382)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (39:43.855)
and learn how to work and navigate it within it. have three of my clients are in very, very, very male dominated fields. We're not gonna suddenly get rid of the patriarchy. We just have to understand we're working inside of it and manipulate the situation to our benefit. It's like, this is...

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (39:58.978)
Yeah, and I have the same conversations about food and weight and nutrition and like, our world is set up in such a way that we have highly palatable, super tasty, affordable, high calorie food on literally every corner unless you move to the mountains and then you're you know, maybe you have a few cafes but like, you remember where we're at in Florida, there is a fast food restaurant and a grocery store literally on every corner.

our recognition that the environment plays a role in our weight doesn't just automatically get rid of the environment. But recognizing that the environment plays a role, then we know, okay, I need to have some tools, I need to have a plan, I need to learn how to navigate the grocery store.

I'm not gonna get rid of the bakery section, but I need to learn how to navigate that and set myself up for success and have some guardrails and have some strategies so that I can navigate these things. Like my kids are gonna want a happy meal in the middle of a crazy road trip when there's hardly anything to eat and the only option is a fast food place. Like we're gonna stop for fast food. How do I navigate that meal that day, that week in such a way that that's no big deal?

versus having a ton of anxiety or feeling like it kills my momentum or derails me from my bigger goals or beating myself up and getting in like a shame spiral about it. Like we have to prepare for those feelings. And people are like, want me to help them prepare for the food choice. Okay, what do I order when I go there? I was like, I don't care what you order. Order what you want. How are we gonna navigate how we're feeling about it, how we're thinking about it, how we move on from it? know, far too often people will have this meal that they feel is

off limits or bad or whatever.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (41:47.16)
which there is no such thing. And then try to compensate for it or try to over restrict or try to make up for it. And that's not healthy either, right? Then we get in these like binge restrict cycles. So I think working with people like you and the kind of work that you do with the life coaching, people are kind of shocked when they come and work with a dietician. And like I'm asking them about their relationships. I'm asking them about their work. I'm asking them about their routine and their calendar and their systems and their tools.

and like how do you manage your life? Because we've got to figure out how to manage your nutrition within the context of all of that.

And sometimes I wish that they would go work with you for a little while or go work with a help like a life coach get your life together and then we can worry about the details of like are we getting enough fiber and omega-3s because that's important but like really what's important we got to talk about your husband that's derailing your efforts here or like we got to talk about this job that you have that doesn't give you a break like what that like that's not legal like who can we contact an HR to make sure that you get your like

lunch break so you can actually eat something and then we can figure out what you're going to eat for lunch.

Sophia Hyde (43:00.884)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (43:01.494)
Right? And so it's always interesting working with people for nutrition. And I think I tried really hard to cover that in the book that, you know, like you said, there isn't a, you should eat this way. It's how do we figure out how to best feed you in the context of the real world that's going to work for you? And how do we balance your goals, which are some weight loss goals, some health goals? How do we balance that against like your other priorities in life?

Because sure, we could go all in on diet and fitness and exercise, but something's gotta give. Because we're all doing too much already. And so something's gotta give. And if we think we're gonna add it on to these two jobs and these two kids and this difficult relationship that we're in, it's just a recipe for burnout. So.

Figuring out how to eat a lot of people want a list of foods and there's a list of foods in the book, right? But it's like who cares if you bought it at the grocery store How are we actually going to get it in your mouth into the context of your day is a more interesting and more difficult? conversation to have

Sophia Hyde (44:08.658)
Yeah, for the person who might be listening to this, who I hesitate to say doesn't know what GLP ones are because I just, and maybe it's just that I'm chronically online, I feel like most of us know what they are. Yeah, I feel like most of us know what they are, but some people probably have a belief system of they're just like those weight loss shots, right?

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (44:24.775)
If you don't know at this point, yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (44:36.578)
Mm-hmm.

Sophia Hyde (44:37.668)
And so I do think that there is definitely still some judgment and shame around them, especially I've heard people shaming people behind their backs because they lost their way that way. they didn't lose weight the right way. They just got those shots. And so if there's people, it's one of those things where whenever people make these judgmental comments, they think that they're...

talking about this person behind their back, but what you're actually doing is you're teaching the person listening to you that you're not a safe space. And so there's probably people listening who have had people make comments to them about these meds maybe with belief systems attached to them and that made them maybe fear them or question if they should or shouldn't do it. And so I don't wanna get off this episode without giving you an opportunity to share.

as a dietician, somebody who has been through all the different weight loss journeys, who is this for? And I would definitely recommend anybody who's remotely curious to read the book. But beyond that, like what's your, like your soap box, like give us your pitch on how you know this is right for you.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (45:50.668)
Yeah. It's a good question because there's two schools of thought actually in this space like this obesity medicine space. There's two schools of thought. And I feel like I mean, if you know me, I live in the gray area on a lot of things and I like don't love one or the other. But I so I kind of vacillate between these two kind of points of view. On one hand, anybody who is has excess body fat.

to be clinically diagnosed with obesity, which would be a BMI greater than 27 with a weight-related comorbidity. So like you're a little overweight, 27 is not very, very overweight, like a BMI of 27, a little overweight, but you also have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or pre-diabetes, like fatty liver, like sleep apnea. You have some excess body fat and a health condition.

You qualify for these medications and probably in terms of health would really benefit from them. Even if you don't lose a ton of weight, but just in the way that they work in a lot of different ways. Because it's not all about the way that these medicines work. It's not all about just losing the weight causes the improvement in these conditions.

It's the way it these medicines really help you eat a healthier lifestyle and live a healthier Like do more fitness. They really support Living the world being able to navigate the environments right without all these foods making healthier choices so anybody In that category or anybody BMI greater than 30 now, we know the BMI is problematic We know that you know, it's not perfect but on a statistical kind of playing field if you look at the whole US population most people with a BMI

over 30 are going to have some excess body fat and it's that excess body fat that over time contributes to poor health.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (47:47.778)
So excess body fat can contribute to the high cholesterol, to developing diabetes, to the poor circulation, to the fatty liver. And then those conditions have downstream negative consequences. So excess body fat can increase your risk for cancer, for example. So treating the excess body fat, no matter who you are, if you happen to have excess body fat, you're overweight or obese, have obesity, you qualify for these medications and they're probably super helpful.

Right, is the like, give it to everyone, put it in the water supply, everyone should be on these medications, school of thought. That exists. I'm not quite all the way there. I think that there are a good chunk of people in these categories who haven't yet.

Like don't get me wrong, most people who have lived their life with weight struggles have tried to lose weight before and have tried to exercise. But I think if a lot of us are really honest with ourselves about like, we putting in good intentions with our nutrition and fitness? Do we have some habit-based goals? Are we mindful of our nutrition? Are we trying to move more? Are we trying to eat more healthy foods? I think there are some people in those categories who with good lifestyle changes and the support

of like a dietician could lose some of that weight, improve those health habits and don't need the medications, right?

However, I think I'm on this side where there's people like me who have done all the things. You've been dieting, you've been losing weight, you've been exercising, you know what good nutrition is, you've done all the things, you've counted the calories, whatever strategy, you've been working with your doctor for years, still struggling to lose weight, or you've lost it and then you gain it back really easily and you've lost it and you gain it back really easily.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (49:45.504)
think those are the people that these medications are perfect for. Like the people who have really struggled and like weight has been this thing that they've never been able to conquer.

I think those people are like perfect candidates for these medications. So people with big appetites, who are just really impulsive towards food, who have that food noise, I think that those are the people that are really perfect for these medicines. There are people out there, right, that have a BMI over 30 who would not say that they have food noise. There are people out there with a BMI over 30.

just because they have like a more sedentary lifestyle and they overeat on calories, but they wouldn't necessarily say that they have the food noise that has them always thinking about and seeking food. Or they wouldn't say that they have a huge appetite, they just snack all the time. You know, I think those people don't get as much benefit out of these GLP-1 medications as those people with this huge appetite and food noise.

At the end of the day, I patient autonomy wins. And if you're safe to take these medications, and I talk about in the book, like what really disqualifies people from being safe to take these medications? There's not a lot of things. If you're safe for it and you have a doctor you trust, and you know, I think people should do this with a dietician and a sports program and a fitness program and a doctor who knows what they're doing to help you manage the side effects and the dosing.

But I think if you're even curious or you think you want to try these medicines and you qualify, I love that for you. Like I'm not ever going to tell somebody that they should or shouldn't be on a medication.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (51:24.982)
Again, I think everybody should have autonomy over their health choices and their body. so I'm like, I go back and forth, right? Give it to everybody, put it in the water supply versus like, there are some people who really do benefit the most. And this conversation, right, would be irresponsible of us to have this conversation without recognizing like the big elephant in the room is that they're very expensive and very difficult to get even if you have great health insurance, it might not be covered. And so that adds a whole nother layer

of accessing these medications and there are people out there who probably really need these medications who can't afford them and then there are people out there yeah yeah so that was a lot of people who pay out of pocket truly

Sophia Hyde (52:03.412)
What's the average out of pocket that you see with the people you work with?

Sophia Hyde (52:10.618)
And what do you see? What are those numbers though? Like what are those figures that people are spending on these?

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (52:14.446)
So right now, it's gotten way better. In the past six months, they've gotten way more affordable. Eli Lilly, who makes Zephoun and Manjaro, which is kind of like better than Ozepik and Wigovie, released these vial options, like vials instead of the pens. They range from $349 to $499 per month.

Sophia Hyde (52:38.918)
And if that's your pay, if that's if you're paying the whole cost yourself.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (52:41.934)
If you're paying the full cost yourself, don't have insurance coverage. And that used to be $1,200 a month.

Sophia Hyde (52:48.146)
That's what I was thinking. That's what I thought that it was if you were cash flowing it.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (52:49.87)
It used to be $1200 a month. So they've really come down. There's a lot of pressure on the market to make these more affordable. A lot of the insurances are not covering, but they, so Lily's done this awesome thing, I think, to make these medications more affordable. We joke all the time that if they would come down another hundred, they would be even more accessible for more people. But I mean, even if, let's be honest, $400 to $500 a month, I mean, that's daycare. That's a car payment. That's, you know, that's a good amount of money that a lot of people can't swing.

But if you have insurance coverage, like I'm so lucky, I'm on my husband's insurance plan through his work and we pay $60 a month for my medicine. But I joke all the time, like I work from home now, like I tell John, if for whatever reason I had to pay cash and needed to find $500 in my budget, I would have us go down to be a one car family.

instead of having two vehicles, I would have one vehicle as a family. I would drive your ass to work at 6 a.m. to be able to afford my medication because that's how important it has been to me. But there are people out there, who can afford it, who maybe don't need it. You know, I get nervous when people are chasing thinness as their goal and they start these medications because they want to be thin and they sacrifice their muscle and their bone and their health in the process. That gives me pause.

that makes me nervous. But any doctor worth their salt that has some ethics and some, you know, that knows what they're doing would not prescribe to those people. It's part of why we started the clinic that I'm with, with Dr. Spencer. We're trying to be different. You know, right now there's a lot of these like internet kind of pill mills where you can go get a prescription really easily.

Sophia Hyde (54:34.77)
Yeah, before we wrap up, want you to tell everybody what it is you're doing with the clinic right now.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (54:38.934)
Yeah, so we have a jointvenure.com is a comprehensive obesity medicine clinic So unlike a lot of these other platforms online a lot of these big name diet companies Right have put out a clinic where you can get a glp1 medication prescription from like a nurse practitioner Online with very little interaction with that doctor very little comprehensive care Some of them have some component of a nutrition program. Some of them have a component of a fitness program, but it's kind of like

and ask.

help yourself if you want to, but very little relationship built with your team. So at Joint Vineyard, we have an obesity medicine physician, a registered dietician, and a strength program. And we strongly encourage everyone to really talk with us and really meet with us and really utilize the coaching and utilize the platform and build that relationship. And our doctors are not just going to write a GLP-1 prescription and send you out the door, like they're actually practicing medicine. So

something that happens with weight loss is a lot of your other medications might need to be adjusted. Your thyroid medicine, your high blood pressure medicine, you might have questions about how this weight loss impacts other health conditions. And a lot of these other platforms are just gonna say, to your primary care and not manage it when we're really gonna try to manage the whole picture, your lipids, your blood pressure, your blood sugar, that sort of thing. And it's funny, reminds me, Sophia, I'll never forget a conversation I had with you like 10 years ago.

and I think I posted about it recently. I remember when you told me, and I was shocked, I was like appalled, because I was in this, you I was working in the hospital, very like, come from a very traditional healthcare background. And you told me at one point that you and your family had a direct primary care where you didn't pay an insurance premium, you just paid a subscription to your doctor for your family.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (56:36.106)
And I was like, that's crazy, what do mean you don't have health insurance? I was like, beside myself, I was like, that's so risky.

But now it's funny like 10 years later direct to primary care a subscription based model for health care really is in a lot of ways superior to an insurance based model because we don't have any of that red tape. We don't have that bells and whistles. We're available to you whenever you need us. Like we don't bill insurance and it's magical. It's so great not having to deal with insurance companies and being accessible to all people no matter who their plan is. And I remember I think about you all the time because I was like you're the first person I knew that was like

engaging in that direct primary care model way before it was popular.

Sophia Hyde (57:19.764)
So I saw that post and not to correct you like live on my podcast, but I've never had that service. I've also never had insurance, but so I don't use insurance, but we use medical sharing. we've been on a medical, yeah, medical sharing. And I mean, I've been on this with the same one for

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (57:26.126)
Who? I remember you saying you never had an injury. And you had like a pediatrician or something. Okay. Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (57:42.741)
Since 2011, we went with this organization and we were with a different one for the four years before that. My entire adulthood, I've never had traditional insurance and my husband talked about it all the time. We think it is the biggest scam in America. It is such a scam. And so I have no regrets that I've never had traditional insurance, but we actually will probably be forced to switch to the type of primary care you're referring to. I've just always paid my primary cares out of pocket.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (58:11.662)
Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (58:11.828)
But no, up here in Asheville, I've been using, you know, a lot of people have, I've never used a traditional Western medicine doctor. So a lot of people like, you functional medicine. I've been using, my kids and I, we've all been with integrated medicine, has been the type of practitioner that I've preferred to gravitate towards. And they just changed their policy last month that they will no longer be seeing out of state patients. And we just moved out of state. And so I have till January to find somebody new.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (58:37.454)
.

Sophia Hyde (58:40.07)
And everybody up here in Asheville, the only integrated medicine practitioners I can find are on the subscription basis. And so I'm looking at making those adjustments to figure out what that'll look like for our family, because it's like $200 a person a month. it's why. I'm like, is, yeah. So anyways, I'm right up all in the middle of that right now with my family. But yes, it is. We've never done.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (59:01.986)
doing it. Yeah.

Sophia Hyde (59:06.756)
anything medical in a traditional way. Probably going back to the beginning of our conversation, being super suss about things. Something just never jived right with me. So I've always just looked for a different alternative path.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (59:14.552)
Yeah.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (59:20.334)
Yeah, yeah, I know. think I, because I remember we had a classmate, right, who was working with Obama on the Obamacare plan from high school. was, and I remember doing an interview with him because I had had brain surgery and my health insurance covered so much of that brain surgery and all of that stuff. And I was like such an advocate for insurance. And you're like, I don't know.

And I remember you challenging me on the insurance front and now I've come first full circle I totally see how it's like a mess but Back then it really was helpful. So I think you know, I just so put out there think everybody should have some sort of like catastrophic health insurance, but Yeah Yeah

Sophia Hyde (59:48.745)
Yeah

Sophia Hyde (59:57.503)
and we do, like we have the medical sharing platform. Like I have, I mean, I had a $200,000 surgery in March. So yes, and my family is fine. We're, know, so yeah, there's, yes, finding the path that works for you. Again, back to being your favorite self. But okay, we are out of time, but I deeply appreciate you coming today. Before we go, is there anything where you had like in your mind,

that coming on this podcast today, you felt like I definitely wanna make sure if I talk about, if there's this one thing that I share, I want people to get this message through.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (01:00:35.96)
Well, I I say this on a lot of platforms and a lot of places. And I think it resonates with your approach to your content too, Sophia, is like.

You gotta find your own path and your own motivation and your own journey. And so please don't feel like because I'm so strongly in favor of GLP-1 medications that I'm trying to say that like everybody needs them to lose weight. But I do think it's important that we all come to any decision in life, especially with health and nutrition and weight loss or fitness with an appreciation for the science and an appreciation for like truth and

Looking to see What the ex like trying to find an expert to help you through making your decisions You don't have to do it alone. You don't have to follow a wellness influencer or somebody online just because you like them They have a certain opinion about things I think it's important to always ask if this person who's trying to help you as an expert and Not only are they an expert, but do they have your best intention in mind or they're just trying to sell you something?

Sophia Hyde (01:01:43.828)
Mm-hmm.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (01:01:44.468)
So yeah, everybody deserves to be paid for their services and to be able to promote their works like my book and my clinic and that sort of thing. But the end result of that is I'm trying to help people. But if somebody's trying to sell you a supplement program or some stuff you don't need or...

They're pretending to have a secret to a problem that you have that you've not been able to solve for the past 20 years, and they have this secret, it's probably not that simple. So I encourage everybody to be skeptical, try to be evidence-based, science-based, and do your due diligence before making any significant changes to your nutrition or your health.

Sophia Hyde (01:02:22.164)
Thank you for that and thanks for coming on today. was so good to see you.

Summer Kessel, RD, CSOWM, LDN (01:02:27.084)
It's good to see you too. We should figure out a way to hang out more than twice in 20 years, but then you moved away to the mountains. So I don't know how we're gonna do that, but.

my hair is beautiful. Okay, it was good to see you.